Re: Craigslist, job search, and the book

[Robert <http://dummy.us.eu.org/robert>]

--- Elaine <http://www.hotmail.com/~et> wrote:
> Do you think it makes any difference whether you post your resume or
> just check the sites everyday?

I do both.  I am hoping that, once a company does decide to hire someone
outside a company, they will look for a place where they can get free
resumes, and one of those places is craigslist.  It happens
occassionally.  The good thing about craigslist is that everything
expires after a certain number of days.  So, an employer who sees a
resume on craigslist knows that the job seeker is interested in finding
a job (unlike putting your resume on a web site which stays up there
forever, even after the person's circumstances (location, work status,
etc.) have changed).

> Also, I read that article that Gail sent about Screen-bots.  I'm sure
> that is what is happening in a lot of cases.

I didn't read that article, but I know that software is used to screen
people out.  However, when the job market picks up, employers using that
software are going to be the losers 'cause employers will need general
skills which software will never know about.

> The whole thing seems to boil down to a catch-22: (1) We all know that
> getting a personal referral is the best way to go, but how many people
> do any of us know who are deep inside some company we want to work
> for?  The article says: " Call everybody you can think of who may know
> somebody in that company, and find out who the hiring manager is.
> When you find his name, don't just send the guy an email. Get yourself
> introduced. Get somebody he already knows, listens to and trusts, to
> send him an email with your resume attached. Call him yourself. You
> need to get his attention the old fashioned way."  We've all been told
> this over and over -- find someone deep inside the company and promote
> yourself to them.  Sounds easy, but finding those people is very hard.
> The key part that is tough is "Get somebody he already knows, listens
> to and trusts".  DBM was pushing networking the way business people do
> -- "I scratch your back and you scratch mine."  Technies have never
> been good at that.  However, I heard from my Minnesota manager that
> one guy from Mervyns got a job at Safeway as an IT manager.  He is
> Indian, 32 years old, and the best smoozer I every saw.  I can see why
> he got a job.  He was the right ethnic group, the right age, and the
> right personality.

Well, I've exhausted my network.  Only by cold calling or attending user
groups will my network expand.

Also, I am going to be trying to form a where I live High-Tech Job Seeker
group using the Monster Networking thing.  Really, I'm hoping I can find
more people to do cold calling with me.  It can't hurt at this point.

> (2) Cold calling is mostly a turn-off to the people inside -- they've
> got better things to do (like their 60 hour work weeks).  It is worth
> it only because you might find out if the company uses Unix/Linux or
> just Microsoft.

Which is pretty damn important for me.

> We need to keep that list updated.  The whole security thing has put a
> whole new turn to cold calling in person.  One temp agency in where I live
> has a locked door and will not accept anyone without an appointment.
> Even with an appointment, you stand out there and bang on the door
> until they open.  Their are too many shootings in where I live, they say.

That could be a good sign for housing prices at least :-).

> (3) Most of us are still reduced to sending resumes, but I'm sure what
> the article says is probably happening.  The resume goes to a
> database, somebody may or may not use the right key words that just
> happen to be on your resume.  The whole thing is pretty hit or miss.
> 
> So, as I said, a catch-22.

The software, from what I've seen, is pretty expensive.  Most companies
don't have anything like that, especially the smaller ones.

You always take chances and you can't do any worse...

> The real problem, of course, is that huge imbalance -- hundreds of
> thousands of job seekers and only a hand full of jobs.

Yes.  Support groups are a good use of all this extra idle work power.
Remember, unions in this country started out as guilds.

> >Also, the thing about keeping in touch with previous interviewers (#4
> >below) is also an important factor mentioned in this "Overnight Job
> >Search Strategy" book, in addition to using them to find other
> >companies and contacts.  (I finally finished this book and am going
> >to re-read it because it's chock full of good info.)
> >
> 
> The book is out of print (10 year old copyright) but I see some used
> copies on amazon.  Maybe you could get one for me and I can pay you.

Sorry, I boycott Amazon.  Try http://www.addall.com and find another
store and e-mail me the store, and then I'll buy it for you.

> I don't want to buy over the internet just yet.  By the way, I saw on
> the news this morning that the state is now going to try to collect a
> "use tax" from people who buy from the internet and don't pay tax.
> There is no statute of limitation on it either, though I don't know
> how they are going to collect if people don't fess up.

This is a losing proposition for the state.  The only way is to sue
every company that sells over the internet.  It will ultimately be too
expensive.

> >Ralph says that the Bay Area economy is improving.  I think it was,
> >but it seems to have gone into a holding pattern at this point.  The
> >number of job listings increased substantially in Dec & Jan, but has
> >since stayed the same.  I fear it may not change again until the
> >November election is over.
> 
> A dismal thought.

Indeed.

> >On another subject, that interview with the company in San Jose went
> >fairly badly.  But, I don't yet know my competition, so who knows
> >what will happen.
> 
> How do you know if te interview didn't go well?  Was it something they
> said, or just not a good feel from their body language or facial
> expressions?

Both.  First, my interviewer was 30 minutes late to arrive.  Then, he
said "well, I'd like to hold on your resume for a while..." which is
almost always a bad sign.  Also, he seemed antsy and uncomfortable, like
he had places to go to.  I told him I didn't want to use too much of his
time (you're not supposed to say this, but the atmosphere was too
uncomfortable) and we ended.  He said he'll contact me within the next 3
weeks to tell me where things will go (also, a bad sign).

I think part of problem was that I think I conveyed the feeling that I
thought that the company had no future when I asked more about the
technology and their competition.  This is when things started turning
sour.

At least I got more interviewing practice :-).